[Buddha-l] Dependent arising variants

[Stephen Hodge]

Vicente wrote:

> well, I don't remember of some cite in the Nikayas with an
> explicit reference of two processes. I wonder if it is only a
> pedagogical tool of the commentators.

No, they are in the Nikayas. My whole point is that the commentators do not 
pick up on these because they were wedded to the idea of the 12 nidana 
series.

> I agree with the repetition. Neither I talk about a circular
> mechanism. However, I understand that there is only one process, not
> two.
They are two ways of describing the arising of du.hkha.  In that sense, they 
comprise two processes.

> It is a problem of the nature of our knowledge. When we are checking
> any dependence, it is the consequence of our knowledge knowing a
> causal relation between elements.
Well, take two nidanas at random.  Old age and death are said to arise in 
dependence upon birth.  Obviously, one will not get old and die without 
having been born, but for me it sounds rather odd to say that birth causes 
old age and death.  There is no causality here in the scientific, or even 
everyday, sense.

Best wishes,
Stephen Hodge