[Buddha-l] rebirth

[Joy Vriens]

Richard P. Hayes wrote:

> The Indian Buddhist Kamalasila makes a similar point. When one goes to
> prison, one is reborn in hell. When one has greed for what is
> unavailable, one is a ghost. When one acts without regard for others,
> one is ipso facto entering rebirth as an animal. When one finally gets
> everything one wants and then worries about it being stolen (or taxed
> away by Democrats) or worries about dying before one has enough time to
> enjoy all one's toys, then one has temporarily entered the deva realm. 

I always thought this was an interpretation by Trungpa in order to make 
the 6 realms palatable for Westerners. I am very glad Kamalasila made 
this point as well. Would you have a reference of the text where he 
mentioned this?

Belief in and teachings about rebirth seem to me very much a question of 
motivation and of a way of developing it. When Ron quoting Khenpo 
Khartar Rinpoche writes "Whether you believe it or not, there is 
rebirth. Otherwise you could do anything you want with no 
consequences.". Then this very much reminds of what I was told as a 
child: "Whether you believe it or not God sees and knows everything you 
do. Otherwise you could do anything you want with no consequences." What 
I conclude from this is that it is the second part that matters, because 
of the "otherwise". And that the first part is meant to motivate or 
motivates us in order to achieve that. Believing in rebirth or believing 
in God's all-seeing and all-knowing in itself is not the objective and 
insufficient. And those who achieve morality, or whatever, through 
motivating themselves in different ways will most likely get a similar 
benefit by doing so.

Motivation is a very personal matter. What works for some doesn't work 
for others. Motivation is essential, and there is no unique receipe to 
motivate people or to get them to motivate themselves.

When I read Benito's quote (MN 26) of the Buddha:

	"This   Dhamma   leads  not  to
        disenchantment,   to  dispassion,  to  cessation
        [...], but only to reappearance in the dimension
        of  nothingness."  So,  dissatisfied  with  that
        Dhamma, I left.
	 "This   Dhamma   leads  not  to
        disenchantment,   to  dispassion,  to  cessation
        [...], but only to reappearance in the dimension
        of  neither  perception nor non-perception." So,
        dissatisfied with that Dhamma, I left.

I notice he is not easily satisfied and that dissatisfaction can be 
pretty strong stuff, capable of surviving even nothingness, (one wonders 
what happened to his dissatisfaction when abiding in nothingness, or did 
he perhaps take for nothing-ness what wasn't nothing-ness?) I guess that 
my dissatisfaction is far below the Buddha's dissatisfaction and that I 
am far easier to satisfy. In the world where everything is upside down 
people call that a quality. If they only knew.

Joy