[Buddha-l] Iconochasms

[Joy Vriens]

Dan wrote:
>It's a bogus test, Joy. Notice that virtually no one occupies the 
>bottom-right quadrant. However the Western Republican states in the US are 
>filled with economically right-wing but socially libertarian folks (they 
>want no govt intervention in ANYTHING), and that sort of popularism has 
>always had a significant following in the states, and, perhaps in somewhat 
>smaller measure, in Europe. 

It's not a serious test, but that's true for all tests I think. I think the bottom line of the rejecton of govt intervention often is that they (those who can pay for the goodies of gvt inttervention) don't want to pay for it. Before W's election, I read that he wanted to withdraw state help and give a bigger role to charities (it was part of compassionate conservatism). If you look at how help after disasters, even common issues like help for the homeless, working poor etc. or simply funding for schools, prisons, hospitals is becoming more and more private, including in Europe, the only genuin role considered acceptable for a state seems to be "security"/control in the largest sense of the word.   Extremely worrying.
 
>That Olmert -- who is a moron, a mediocre politician, an inept leader, and 
>who was elected on a platform of promising to unilaterally withdraw from the 
>West Bank in the next two years (that was before Hizbollah precipitated the 
>recent war, so that's now off the table) -- should end up virtually in the 
>identical space as Hitler also suggests that the way they are classifying 
>"heroes" leaves a lot to be desired as well. 

I agree that may not be an innocent move. And if it isn't I don't like that equation.  
But in general I don't like it when people are either idolised or demonised at a "safe" and comfortable distance from where we stand. Hitler became Hitler because he was given the means. I think there are a lot of potential Hitlers on this earth (cf Hannah Ahrend).
   
And what to think of a Madeleine Albright and all those who think in terms of figures and percentages? 
("4   Who, commenting on the deaths of more than half a million children, said  I think that this is a very hard choice, but the price - we think the price is worth it?") Certainly, there may be a context, but for some things the context shouldn't even be considered.

>Like most other buddha-lers, however, I ended up in the vicinity of Gandhi 
>and Mandela, neither of whom I would want to spend any time with at a party. 

Yes I think there is always something extreme in any great figure, because to make a certain point and to get a certain message across or action done, you may have to betray that message or action by giving it more volume etc. and you must believe in interventionism of course.

Joy