[Buddha-l] Saantideva (Re: Pudgalavada)

[Joy Vriens]

Richard Nance wrote,

>But, of course, interpreting a text may well require more than 
>assessing the logical contours of its claims. Regarding this 
>particular verse, the Indian commentator Prajñaakaramati notes that 
>what 'Saantideva is driving at is, roughly, that mind/mental phenomena 
>are, in an ultimate sense (paramaarthata.h), not substantially 
>existent (na vastusat), due to being essenceless (ni.hsvabhaava). 

>This, in general terms, is what the notion of emptiness is usually 
>taken to involve or imply. To be "empty" is to be empty of essential 
>or substantial existence, where essential/substantial existence is 
>taken to be opposed to the notion that things arise in dependence on 
>causes and conditions. 

>So: the verse's "kiñcit" should be read as referring to any 
>*substantially existent* thing.  Does this help? 

Yes a lot. For me to be empty (hollow) is not to be nothing.

By the greatest coincidence (as always) I read today a quote of Nagarjuna (I don't know what text, it isn't specified) in the De kho na nyid bcu pa’i rgya cher ‘grel pa 
Tattva-dasaka-?ika by Sahajavajra. It goes like this:

blo gros dman pa 'ga' zhig gis
yod pa'ang ni med mthong ba
de yis dngos rnams nyer zhi zhing
dge ba'i blta bya nyid ma mthong

Which would translate like this:

Those of lesser intelligence
Even see that which exists as non-existent
They thus eliminate real things
And can't even see anymore what is considered virtuous.

It's a complicated matter, but I like the fact that Nagarjuna includes moral matters in the discussion about what is real and not. In fact, the things that really count in my life, the things that are *alive*, would be considered unreal in a material, substantial sense. The shortcut "mind is nothing" is wrong for various reasons IMO. It would be affirming something, which is not very Madhyamaka like. Mind is (like) this, it is nothing, is not the same as saying "mind is not something". And my second observation would be why all the fuss about "nothing"?

Joy