[Buddha-l] Tantric Buddhism

[Joy Vriens]

Bonjour Bob Zeuschner,


"I wonder if any of you can recommend a text or texts which could help me 
sort out:
(1) Indian Hindu Tantric thought 5th-13th century
(2) Indian Buddhist Tantric thought 5th-13th century
(3) Tibetan Tantric Buddhism

Most texts I own seem to conflate all three, and many consider later 
Tibetan Tantric ideas to be the same as the earlier Indian Tantric 
practices and beliefs."

I recently read a book on Cachemirian shivaism, not up to academic standards and with quite outspoken opinions but interesting nevertheless, with the title Joyau des Tantra by Jean Papin. The general idea one gets is that one can't even conflate Indian Hindu Tantric thought between 5th-13th century. Papin likes to divide them into dual and non-dual approaches and only the latter ones deserve his esteem. 
Tantra seems to be a bag in which all the less usual classical yoga exercises (therapies) and approaches are put in together. Even Cachemirian Shivaism is divided into various currents (trika-spanda-pratyabhijna, krama, kula, siddha etc.) many of which can be found back in Tibetan Buddhism, which as far as I can see grouped the various tendancies with time into one blend, "theorised them together" so to speak.

"I am inclined to believe that there are significant differences between 
(2) and (3), but I'm not sure if there were any significant differences 
between (1) and (2)."

As I see it, Tibet basically had two periods where "Tantric" teachings were imported the 8th/9th century and the 10/11th century. The tantras of the latter period seem to have a heavy Cachemirian Shivaist influence and include more forceful hathayogic methods and more ritualism, culminating in the Kalacakra. The methods of the former "tantric" period have a more peaceful approach, so it seems to me, but it may simply be a question of this or that tendancy or current dominating in that specific period.

In the above mentioned book, Papin explains that even within Shivaism there are different approaches according to the dispositions or capacities of various persons (which may also be a theorisation après coup in order to harmonise different approaches with different origins): anupaaya (no path), vimarshopaaya (minimal path of awakening), shaambhavopaaya (path of pure will), an.aavopaaya (path of individual activity), vaama maarga and pa~nca tattva (inverted paths). Coming from Tibetan Buddhism myself all the methods described in the book had a very familiar ring to them.

Erik's remarks quoted below offer a start of an answer to my question.
> What still puzzles me is the relation between the tantras as ritual 
> systems with strong brahmanic influences and the mahaasiddhas, which 
> were mainly errant yogis who were not so much into rituals and mainly 
> practised asanas and breathing techniques. Some of them didn't even care 
> whether they were to be called hindu or buddhist. The Tibetans merged 
> all the different tantras into a more or less unified ritual system. The 
> songs of the mahaasiddhas and those of their present successors, the 
> Bauls, show a strong indifference to rituals and theory. Rituals and 
> formal initiations are more a hobby of monks. But somehow the Tibetan 
> tradition has developed the ideal of combining the career of a monk and 
> a mahaasiddha.

If one looks at a person like Advayavajra, one can find both rejection of rituals and very strong ritualism in his writings. According to the legends, he used to be a monk and abandoned his monastic career to become a siddha. So it could be texts written at different periods of his life, but then  he never disavowed his former writings in his later writings. The same thing is true for many of the mahasiddhas who are often also authors of ritualist texts (or at least those are attributed to them). So I expect it is more about an inner detachment from rituals rather than a complete rejection of them, sort of like the disinterested action of the Gita. 

Joy   
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