[Buddha-l] Re: Buddhist pacifism

[Stephen Hodge]

Mike Austin wrote:

> If one buys meat, it is the intention and action of the butcher etc. that 
> determines if he kills. No order is given. Such an order would be just an 
> imputation from the butcher's side.

Mike, I think you need a reality check -- you obviously do not understand 
the dynamics of the modern meat trade or just don't want to know about it 
for some reason.

Your stance is based on the Buddha's stipulations which applied to a totally 
different social situation.  His advice was given to a small group of monks, 
the newly founded sangha, reliant upon alms from the general population, at 
a time when meat production was small-scale and involved considerably less 
suffering, numerically and qualitatively.  Find out about present-day meat 
production and then ask yourself if you think the Buddha would have 
permitted any meat-eating if he were alive today.

The situation now is totally different.  Meat production is geared to the 
consumer -- without the demand would so many animals be slaughtered ?   An 
animal might not be killed for you as "Mike Austin" but it is killed for you 
"the consumer".  As a consumer you are causing others to kill for you.  It's 
that simple.

Do you even know how many animals are murdered each year for human 
consumption ?  In the US alone, over 9.4 billion animals per annun (2.5 
million per day) !   The numbers in Europe are proportionately similiar. 
How does that sit with your professed Mahayana belief in compassion ?   This 
is even before we recognize that many animals are not even stunned properly 
before they are butchered -- at times they are skinned, gutted and butchered 
while fully conscious due to the pressures of production.   Remember also 
that these animals have been bred and raised solely for one purpose -- to be 
killed and eaten by humans.   You the consumer creates this demand, 
therefore you are responsible in part.  When you buy meat, do you look at 
the price and buy "value for money" ?   If so, you are causing animals even 
more suffering because  cost saving comes at a heavy price to them.

I suggest you do a couple of things quickly.  Get the book that Joanna 
mentioned recently by Charles Patterson, "Eternal Treblinka", or similar, 
and also have a look at some of the videos of slaughter-houses in action --  
have a bucket close to hand because you will probably want to vomit.  If you 
can't get hold of any of these videos, I might possibly be able to arrange 
for somebody to send something to you.   Have a video evening and invite 
your local friendly lamas around to watch, since they need educating too. 
I'll even send you my copy of Patterson's book although it is inexpensive 
and easily available even here in the UK.

This is also very relevent to the title of this thread -- read Patterson and 
you will understand.

Best wishes,
Stephen Hodge