From bcarral at kungzhi.org Thu Dec 1 12:34:30 2005 From: bcarral at kungzhi.org (Benito Carral) Date: Thu Dec 1 12:43:28 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] A few thoughts on crazy stupidity Message-ID: <649115654.20051201203430@kungzhi.org> Dear Buddha-L friends, One of the problems with Buddhism is that its teachings are directed to sick and stupid beings, so when such beings try to redefine what Buddhism is, we should expect problems. The Buddha explained correct and incorrect action in a quite straightforward way, and he not only explained but exemplified them with his own life, so trying to justify Deshimaru's, Sangharakshita's, or Trungpa's ways can only be labeled as "stupid." It's something like trying to justify modern liberalism. However we are living in a deeply stupid society and when someone dares to say that such talk and action are sick and stupid, he will get some supposedly unpleasant and surely stupid thing in response. Let's be clear, there is not Buddhism without ethical trainings. Someone who doesn't follow the most basic ethical trainings is not wise, and if the Old Indian Guy were here, he would inmediately expell such individuals from the order. Everything else is wishful and stupid thinking. Best wishes, Beni From jehms at xs4all.nl Thu Dec 1 14:04:20 2005 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Thu Dec 1 14:13:28 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: <011301c5f632$1cbd68a0$6601a8c0@nyc.rr.com> References: <002601c5f54f$45173ee0$6601a8c0@nyc.rr.com> <438E54C8.1050500@cola.iges.org> <011301c5f632$1cbd68a0$6601a8c0@nyc.rr.com> Message-ID: <438F6554.30800@xs4all.nl> Stuart Lachs schreef: >I think the discussion started with Trungpa handling alcohol well and >displaying "crazy wisdom." >Well rapping a car around a telephone pole at high speed, probably dying >from cirrhosis of the liver, and picking Osel Tendzin as his main heir among >other things seems less than displaying great wisdom. I would guess that the >alcohol controlled him more than he admitted. I expect more than "batting >.500" from people presenting themselves as enlightened beings supposedly >wiser than all others and demanding absolute obediance. > >Stuart > > > One thing is certain: it's not the middle way. But to me there is a kind of gnostic logic in it. It seems that doing forbidden things into the extreme is a way of going beyond the rules and being bettter then those who just follow the rules. There are the shaiva siddhas who eat meat from a funeral pire, the bauls who swollow pills with menstrual blood, the sixth Dalai Lama etc. I called it romanticism, but it seems to imply the idea that going beyond rules means to violate them. I think that this is simply wrong reasoning, because violating rules is just another way of dealing with them. Erik www.xs4all.nl/~jehms From chanfu at gmail.com Thu Dec 1 15:05:01 2005 From: chanfu at gmail.com (Chan Fu) Date: Thu Dec 1 15:13:30 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] A few thoughts on crazy stupidity In-Reply-To: <649115654.20051201203430@kungzhi.org> References: <649115654.20051201203430@kungzhi.org> Message-ID: On 12/1/05, Benito Carral wrote: > Dear Buddha-L friends, > > One of the problems with Buddhism is that its > teachings are directed to sick and stupid beings, so > when such beings try to redefine what Buddhism is, we > should expect problems. Gee, so *they're* the ones 'with little dust in their eyes' !? Who'd a thunk it... From myquagga at yahoo.com Thu Dec 1 13:15:48 2005 From: myquagga at yahoo.com (Michael Wright) Date: Thu Dec 1 16:59:41 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Great Naropa Poetry Wars book In-Reply-To: <200512011901.jB1J15bG022987@ns1.swcp.com> Message-ID: <20051201201548.42661.qmail@web51010.mail.yahoo.com> I found a book entitled GREAT NAROPA POETRY WARS listed on Amazon (representing other sellers than itself--prices ranging from $30 U.S. to $82). In all listings I've found it cites Tom Clark as the author, not Ed Sanders. Is this a different book with the same title? Also, for the gentleman in Singapore, it looks as if you can have Amazon UK search for it, though it's unclear whether they expect to have results. Michael Wright __________________________________ Start your day with Yahoo! - Make it your home page! http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs From bsimon at toad.net Thu Dec 1 18:16:01 2005 From: bsimon at toad.net (Bernie Simon) Date: Thu Dec 1 18:23:31 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: Crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: <200512011901.jB1J15bF022987@ns1.swcp.com> References: <200512011901.jB1J15bF022987@ns1.swcp.com> Message-ID: <892375fa962cc6805e90d2e0d4dbacc3@toad.net> On Dec 1, 2005, at 2:01 PM, John Whalen-Bridge wrote: > I'll look for the Ed Sanders account but may have a hard time getting > it in Singapore. Thanks to Google I found that you can order it directly from the Fugs website, if you don't mind putting a few dollars in Ed Sanders' pocket. It's called "The Party." The Party, A Chronological Perspective on a Confrontation at a Buddhist Seminary, published by the Investigative Poetry Group, from an investigation into the Trungpa/Merwin/Naone/Vajra-guard incident of 1975. 1977, Poetry, Crime and Culture Press, Woodstock, NY. $25 http://www.thefugs.com/orderform3.htm ---- One mistake after another is also true practice. (Dogen) From Bshmr at aol.com Fri Dec 2 12:37:46 2005 From: Bshmr at aol.com (Bshmr@aol.com) Date: Fri Dec 2 12:43:47 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] A few thoughts on crazy stupidity Message-ID: <276.113116a.30c1fc8a@aol.com> Amazing isn't it, the wisdom and knowledge from past lives which surfaces from time to time? Richard Basham -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051202/8b6337d8/attachment.htm From jamesward at earthlink.net Sat Dec 3 15:14:21 2005 From: jamesward at earthlink.net (James Ward) Date: Sat Dec 3 15:24:07 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] CBETA T. 946 Message-ID: <27D7B548-644A-11DA-AC59-00039347DCC6@earthlink.net> Could someone whose command of modern Chinese is better than mine (an easy criterion) please let the CBETA know that there are a couple of problems with the web-pages for T. 946? The sections listed in the table of contents for this text are 1, 2, 5, 5. Fascicle four can be reached by changing the "001" or "002" or "005" just prior to the .htm to "004," but fascicle three with chapter 12 seems to be inaccessible. Thanks! James Ward From billmagee at gmail.com Sat Dec 3 15:37:46 2005 From: billmagee at gmail.com (William Magee) Date: Sat Dec 3 16:29:03 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] CBETA T. 946 In-Reply-To: <27D7B548-644A-11DA-AC59-00039347DCC6@earthlink.net> References: <27D7B548-644A-11DA-AC59-00039347DCC6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thank you, James. I will alert the CBETA staff. Bill Magee Chung-hwa Institute of Buddhist Studies On 12/4/05, James Ward wrote: > Could someone whose command of modern Chinese is better than mine (an > easy criterion) please let the CBETA know that there are a couple of > problems with the web-pages for T. 946? > > The sections listed in the table of contents for this text are 1, 2, 5, > 5. > > Fascicle four can be reached by changing the "001" or "002" or "005" > just prior to the .htm to "004," but fascicle three with chapter 12 > seems to be inaccessible. > > Thanks! > > James Ward > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > From jamesward at earthlink.net Sat Dec 3 19:50:12 2005 From: jamesward at earthlink.net (James Ward) Date: Sat Dec 3 19:54:11 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] CBETA T. 946 In-Reply-To: References: <27D7B548-644A-11DA-AC59-00039347DCC6@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Thanks! James Ward On Dec 3, 2005, at 2:37 PM, Bill Magee wrote: > Thank you, James. I will alert the CBETA staff. From jpeavler at mindspring.com Sun Dec 4 08:52:08 2005 From: jpeavler at mindspring.com (Jim Peavler) Date: Sun Dec 4 08:54:23 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: <1133316322.4431.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <002601c5f54f$45173ee0$6601a8c0@nyc.rr.com> <1133316322.4431.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Nov 29, 2005, at 7:05 PM, Richard P. Hayes wrote: > What a strange, strange boy > He still lives with his family > Even the war and the navy > couldn't bring him to maturity I am sorry, but I don't approve of poetry, or music; or girl singers for that matter. Her mention of "crazy wisdom", however, is a nice touch and does keep the posting on topic. You don't happen to have any Hank Williams on you do you? From jpeavler at mindspring.com Sun Dec 4 08:57:31 2005 From: jpeavler at mindspring.com (Jim Peavler) Date: Sun Dec 4 10:34:23 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: Crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: <892375fa962cc6805e90d2e0d4dbacc3@toad.net> References: <200512011901.jB1J15bF022987@ns1.swcp.com> <892375fa962cc6805e90d2e0d4dbacc3@toad.net> Message-ID: <75218A29-ACFD-4D41-B7DA-D119A791436E@mindspring.com> On Dec 1, 2005, at 6:16 PM, Bernie Simon wrote: > > Thanks to Google I found that you can order it directly from the > Fugs website, if you don't mind putting a few dollars in Ed > Sanders' pocket. It's called "The Party." > > The Party, A Chronological Perspective on a Confrontation at a > Buddhist Seminary, published by the Investigative Poetry Group, > from an investigation into the Trungpa/Merwin/Naone/Vajra-guard > incident of 1975. 1977, Poetry, Crime and Culture Press, Woodstock, > NY. $25 Now, Ed Sanders wrote the kind of poetry and music I do approve of. Whatever happened to Tooli Kuperberg (or however you spell his name). My wife and I still sing the great love song "Clair June" in three part harmony from time to time. From rhayes at unm.edu Sun Dec 4 13:47:42 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Sun Dec 4 13:54:25 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: References: <002601c5f54f$45173ee0$6601a8c0@nyc.rr.com> <1133316322.4431.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1133729262.4751.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2005-12-04 at 08:52 -0700, Jim Peavler wrote: > I am sorry, but I don't approve of poetry, or music; or girl singers > for that matter. It's okay. Joni Mitchell is Canadian. > You don't happen to have any Hank Williams on you do you? I used to have some Hank Snow (another Canadian), but he was on vinyl, along with my Hank Williams collection, and I no longer have any vinyl albums. Would you settle for a CD of Gordon Lightfoot or Bruce Cockburn (two more Canadians)? By the way, my Buddhism-inspired anti-music period lasted for a little less than two days and then under went a metamorphosis into a neo- Puritan fit of anti-ritualism, which then transformed itself into a short spell of neo-Vipassana iconoclasm. But I got over all that in due course and am once again a walking museum of bad habits and even worse attitudes. -- Richard From marshallarts at bigpond.com Sun Dec 4 17:11:22 2005 From: marshallarts at bigpond.com (Kate Marshall) Date: Sun Dec 4 17:14:28 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Govt. Dept Message-ID: <000c01c5f930$6ccf5280$6900a8c0@vic.bigpond.net.au> Hello, The other month I read, perhaps on this forum, that Buddhist Temples in Japan are listed as a Government Department. I'm interested in when this happened and how it affected the autonomy of the Temples. I've read elsewhere that a number of temples in Okinawa viewed this action as a "takeover" and refused to register with the Government. Their lands were confiscated, the temples demolished and highways or American Air Force bases built in their place. Does anyone have any more details on this, please? Many thanks Kate -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051205/d25ec6f7/attachment.htm From ellwbj at nus.edu.sg Sun Dec 4 18:49:17 2005 From: ellwbj at nus.edu.sg (John Whalen-Bridge) Date: Sun Dec 4 18:54:30 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom Message-ID: On Joni Mitchell's crazy wisdom Richard Hayes wrote: > What a strange, strange boy > He still lives with his family > Even the war and the navy > couldn't bring him to maturity I always thought this song was a nod to Vajradhatu, but I never heard whether or not Joni hung out in Colorado. She did publish something brief in a Zen Center magazine named "ZERO," alongside Leonard Cohen, I think. LAZC? I found it in a used bookstore and grabbed it. Am reading poems by Mary Oliver (West Wind) now, and they are all about animals and insights and joy and...meditation. Lots of stillness and quiet and meditation. No references to crazy wisdom, though. Cheers, JWB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051205/98274a91/attachment.html From rhayes at unm.edu Sun Dec 4 21:46:09 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Sun Dec 4 21:54:32 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1133757969.6746.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-12-05 at 09:49 +0800, John Whalen-Bridge wrote: > On Joni Mitchell?s crazy wisdom Richard Hayes wrote: > > > > > > > What a strange, strange boy > > > He still lives with his family > > > Even the war and the navy > > > couldn't bring him to maturity > > > > I always thought this song was a nod to Vajradhatu, but I never heard > whether or not Joni hung out in Colorado. The claim is made on a Joni Mitchell website that some of the lyrics in the song "Refuge of the Roads" refers to Trungpa, whom she met three times. She claims he induced an egoless state in her that lasted for three days. She considers him one of the most important Zen teachers in life of Zen practice. The lyrics she wrote about him: I met a friend of spirit He drank and womanized And I sat before his sanity I was holding back from crying He saw my complications And he mirrored me back simplified And we laughed how our perfection Would always be denied "Heart and humor and humility" He said "Will lighten up your heavy load" I left him for the refuge of the roads > She did publish something brief in a Zen Center magazine named ?ZERO,? > alongside Leonard Cohen, I think. I wish they'd make an album together. Of course, I also wish that Tom Waits and Diana Ross would make an album together. The universe has learned not to pay much attention to my wishes. -- Richard From franzmetcalf at earthlink.net Mon Dec 5 00:16:04 2005 From: franzmetcalf at earthlink.net (Franz Metcalf) Date: Mon Dec 5 00:24:35 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom In-Reply-To: <1133757969.6746.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133757969.6746.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Richard et al., Thanks, Richard, for the "Refuge of the Roads" lyrics. I didn't know that song. It surely does sound like Joni Mitchell was writing about Trungpa. I didn't know she was even sympathetic to Buddhism, let alone a practitioner. But you wrote that she "considers him [Trungpa] one of the most important Zen teachers in a life of Zen practice." Are you being intentionally ironic here? Or are you pointing to some underlying affinity between Zen and whatever we're supposed to categorize Trungpa's practice as? On that subject, I have it on good authority that Maezumi Roshi was a real fan of Trungpa and very much enjoyed their time [boozing] together. You also wrote, you wish that Mitchell and Leonard Cohen would make an album together. I like that a bit more than Tom Waits and Diana Ross, but those are both excellent ideas. My wish is that Laurie Anderson and Lou Reed would make an album together. Since this is not unreasonable, I'm vaguely annoyed at the both of them that they haven't. BTW: in case anyone wants to follow it up, the magazine "Zero" was published by Joshu Sasaki Roshi's organization, not ZCLA. Glad you and Yusuf Islam are getting over your anti-music periods, Franz From caodemarte at yahoo.com Mon Dec 5 00:02:35 2005 From: caodemarte at yahoo.com (G. McLoughlin) Date: Mon Dec 5 07:16:43 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20051205070235.58705.qmail@web32406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Don't know if it is the same one, but ZERO was published by Mt. Baldy Zen Center/Rinzai-ji folks before it became independent and vanished. --- John Whalen-Bridge wrote: > On Joni Mitchell's crazy wisdom Richard Hayes wrote: > > > > > > > What a strange, strange boy > > > He still lives with his family > > > Even the war and the navy > > > couldn't bring him to maturity > > > > I always thought this song was a nod to Vajradhatu, > but I never heard > whether or not Joni hung out in Colorado. She did > publish something > brief in a Zen Center magazine named "ZERO," > alongside Leonard Cohen, I > think. LAZC? I found it in a used bookstore and > grabbed it. > > > > Am reading poems by Mary Oliver (West Wind) now, and > they are all about > animals and insights and joy and...meditation. Lots > of stillness and > quiet and meditation. No references to crazy > wisdom, though. > > > > Cheers, > > JWB > > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l > __________________________________________ Yahoo! DSL ? Something to write home about. Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com From rhayes at unm.edu Mon Dec 5 09:39:33 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Mon Dec 5 09:44:42 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom In-Reply-To: References: <1133757969.6746.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2005-12-04 at 23:16 -0800, Franz Metcalf wrote: > Thanks, Richard, for the "Refuge of the Roads" lyrics. I didn't know > that song. It's on the album Hejira. > But you wrote that she "considers him [Trungpa] one of > the most important Zen teachers in a life of Zen practice." Are you > being intentionally ironic here? I was paraphrasing the Joni Mitchell web site, which talks of her Zen practice and refers to Trungpa as an important Zen teacher. Actually, Trungpa did spend some time in Japan and had an affinity with Zen. Most Vajradhatu centers I have visited have a distinctively Zen aesthetic to them, or at least a fascinating combination of Zen spareness and Tibetan gaudiness. > Glad you and Yusuf Islam are getting over your anti-music periods, Everything is impermanent, and few things are more impermanent than my convictions. That's why I usually state them is such strident and absolute tones. I've even come around to thinking that Bob Dylan was okay, for a Minnesotan. -- Richard From mike at lamrim.org.uk Mon Dec 5 14:51:16 2005 From: mike at lamrim.org.uk (Mike Austin) Date: Mon Dec 5 14:54:47 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom In-Reply-To: <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133757969.6746.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4IiEpYHUZLlDFwI4@clara.net> In message <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain>, Richard P. Hayes writes > >Everything is impermanent, and few things are more impermanent than my >convictions. That's why I usually state them is such strident and >absolute tones. Hehe! That is just what I find. The more I say something with conviction the more like nonsense it seems to me - and the sooner I drop it. There is no surer way to defeat me in an argument than to agree with me until my conviction increases so much that I become aware of my own stupidity. Am I right, or not? -- Metta Mike Austin From ellwbj at nus.edu.sg Mon Dec 5 19:39:21 2005 From: ellwbj at nus.edu.sg (John Whalen-Bridge) Date: Mon Dec 5 19:44:49 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom Message-ID: Last night I was looking up lyrics to David Bowie's "Panic in Detroit," which I'd been humming wordlessly all day. It seems Bowie was a frequent visitor to Tibet House in his early teens and marks it as something of an influence. He's done several benefits for Tibet House in New York since then. (See cached page below for description of his musical performance with Philip Glass.) Maybe David and Joni and Laurie and Leonard could start a band? If any of the songs became hits, Tina Turner could do a cover. http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:gEZe7yjXsqQJ:www.bowiewonderworld.com/press/00/0102tibet.htm+%22David+Bowie%22+Buddhism+Tibet+House&hl=en From stephen.hopkins at ukonline.co.uk Tue Dec 6 04:13:43 2005 From: stephen.hopkins at ukonline.co.uk (Stephen Hopkins) Date: Tue Dec 6 04:14:56 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmm. Whatever Bowie's interest in Buddhism is, this seems unlikely. Bowie was born in 1947 and lived with his parents in Bromley, nr London, until he was 18. According to at least one source, he first visited the States in 1971. Best, Steve Hopkins > From: "John Whalen-Bridge" > Reply-To: Buddhist discussion forum > Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:39:21 +0800 > To: > Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom > > It seems Bowie was a frequent visitor to Tibet House in his early teens From ziobro at wfu.edu Tue Dec 6 05:27:31 2005 From: ziobro at wfu.edu (Stanley J. Ziobro II) Date: Tue Dec 6 05:34:55 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom In-Reply-To: <4IiEpYHUZLlDFwI4@clara.net> References: <1133757969.6746.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4IiEpYHUZLlDFwI4@clara.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Dec 2005, Mike Austin wrote: > In message <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain>, Richard P. > Hayes writes > > > >Everything is impermanent, and few things are more impermanent than my > >convictions. That's why I usually state them is such strident and > >absolute tones. > > Hehe! That is just what I find. The more I say something with conviction > the more like nonsense it seems to me - and the sooner I drop it. There > is no surer way to defeat me in an argument than to agree with me until > my conviction increases so much that I become aware of my own stupidity. > Am I right, or not? Absolutely not. Stan Ziobro From brburl at mailbag.com Tue Dec 6 07:06:20 2005 From: brburl at mailbag.com (Bruce Burrill) Date: Tue Dec 6 07:14:57 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Crazy Wisdom In-Reply-To: <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1133757969.6746.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1133800773.4598.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7.0.0.10.2.20051206080215.025db358@mailbag.com> At 10:39 AM 12/5/2005, you wrote: >. I've even come around to thinking that Bob Dylan was >okay, for a Minnesotan. Hey. I am from Minnesota and I got CO status on the basis of being Buddhist from the state appeal board in 1972, so it cannot be all bad (outside of Mr Zimmerman). From ralf.steckel at online.ms Tue Dec 6 06:41:53 2005 From: ralf.steckel at online.ms (ralf.steckel@online.ms) Date: Tue Dec 6 07:35:40 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom Message-ID: <255885425@web.de> -begin snip > > Hmm. Whatever Bowie's interest in Buddhism is, this seems unlikely. Bowie > was born in 1947 and lived with his parents in Bromley, nr London, until he > was 18. According to at least one source, he first visited the States in > 1971. > > > Best, > > Steve Hopkins -end snip Dear Buddhist discussion forum, because the discussion about 'crazy wisdoms' meanwhile includes comments about the influence of buddhist teachings to contemporary and not too long passed away Pop Culture i hope my request is not completely off-topic... Is Ken Goffman's/Dan Joy's book 'Counter Culture through the Ages'/'From Abraham to Acid House' suitable to fresh up an 'Old European's ' knowledge about the anglo-saxon and especially the US american Pop Culture of the Sixties and Seventies? Tanks in advance, Ralf --- Contents: Foreword by Timothy Leary Preface by Dan Joy Dis/Orientation by R. U. Sirius PART I: THE MAKINGS OF COUNTERCULTURES CHAPTER ONE ABRAHAM AND PROMETHEUS: Mythic Counterculture Rebels CHAPTER TWO A DIFFERENT TYPE OF HUMAN EXCELLENCE: Defining Counterculture PART II: ACROSS THE SPAN OF TIMES AND PLACES CHAPTER THREE POLITICALLY INCORRECT: Socrates and the Socratic Counterculture CHAPTER FOUR LEAP INTO THE BOUNDLESS: Taoism CHAPTER FIVE THE HAND THAT STOPPED THE MIND: The Zen Counterculture CHAPTER SIX LOVE AND EVOLUTION: The Occult Counterculture of the Sufis CHAPTER SEVEN REMAKING LOVE: The Troubadours and the Heretic Spirit of Provence CHAPTER EIGHT CULTURAL AND POLITICAL REVOLUTION: The Enlightenment of the Seventeenth and Eighteenth Centuries CHAPTER NINE TO EACH HIS OWN GOD: The American Transcendentalists CHAPTER TEN BRILLIANT STORMS OF LAUGHTER: Bohemian Paris, 1900 � 1940 PART III: AFTER HIROSHIMA, �THE� COUNTERCULTURE CHAPTER ELEVEN REBELS WITHOUT A CAUSE: The 1950s CHAPTER TWELVE WHEN YOU CHANGE WITH EVERY NEW DAY: The Youth Counterculture, 1960 - 1967 CHAPTER THIRTEEN WILD IN THE STREETS: The Youth Counterculture, 1968 � 1972 CHAPTER FOURTEEN THAT WHICH DOES NOT KILL ME MAKES ME HIPPER: The Hedonist/Nihilist Countercultures of the 1970s CHAPTER FIFTEEN GLOBAL. DIGITAL. DOOMED?: Counterculture Leans into the Future URL: http://www.counterculturethroughtheages.com/ From yuenfink at aol.com Tue Dec 6 10:36:28 2005 From: yuenfink at aol.com (Thomas Fink) Date: Tue Dec 6 11:05:25 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40bac02eee747d6842788d712fd7d6f2@aol.com> One of the interesting things about this thread is how some facts by second hand knowledge turn into fiction and how for instance things that happened in GB now happened in North America. One really gets a feeling how history is constructed. Like Bowie. As far as I know, Bowie had/has a brother who was seriously interested in Buddhism. Some or one time they went together to Samye Ling, the place in Scotland, where at this time Ch?gyam Trungpa and Akong had been the teachers. Around this time, again in GB, Trungpas car accident happened. He was driving into a toy shop. Like the car accident of Guirdjeff it marked a complete change in his way of teaching. In Trungpas case it was putting off the robes, getting away from Samye Ling and into the States teaching in a Hawaii shirt. The change from Hawaii shirt to suit with tie is another story. A story partly told in "The Mahasiddha and his idiot servant" by "Major" John Perks. Regarding the facts, the Major is not completely reliable but he is a great storyteller. The ones who are allready illminded about Trungpa Rinpoche will of course get more fuel for their opinions. But the rest will get a real taste of the crazyness, the sanity and the humour of this force called Ch?gyam Trungpa. Another interesting source regarding Ch?gyam Trungpa is the latest Zen book from Janwillem van de Wetering. The german title is >Reine Leere<. I believe in english it is called >A Glimpse of Nothingness<. There is a complete chapter about Ch?gyam Trungpa. The name is never mentioned, but it is clear that Wetering knew Trungpa from GB. His point of view and knowledge about the car accident and the alcohol I found quite insightfull. By the way, when Trungpa had his car accident and changed his way of teaching Akong Rinpoche and a lot of other tibetan teachers thought that Trungpa Rinpoche really went crazy. I heard that the late Akong said in a meeting something like that he needed a long time to realize that he had to show his western students his real face and that Trungpa was not only showing them his real face but that he was tearing down his flesh to let them see whats inside. Thomas Fink Am 06.12.2005 um 12:13 schrieb Stephen Hopkins: > Hmm. Whatever Bowie's interest in Buddhism is, this seems unlikely. > Bowie > was born in 1947 and lived with his parents in Bromley, nr London, > until he > was 18. According to at least one source, he first visited the States > in > 1971. > > > Best, > > Steve Hopkins > >> From: "John Whalen-Bridge" >> Reply-To: Buddhist discussion forum >> Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 10:39:21 +0800 >> To: >> Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom >> >> It seems Bowie was a frequent visitor to Tibet House in his early >> teens > > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From franzmetcalf at earthlink.net Tue Dec 6 14:53:10 2005 From: franzmetcalf at earthlink.net (Franz Metcalf) Date: Tue Dec 6 14:55:03 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom In-Reply-To: <40bac02eee747d6842788d712fd7d6f2@aol.com> References: <40bac02eee747d6842788d712fd7d6f2@aol.com> Message-ID: <71712f0d9b44be6006af02f957ae7787@earthlink.net> Gang, Just a quick correction. The van de Wetering book Thomas Fink is thinking of is _Afterzen_, (St. Martin's, 1999). (_A Glimpse of Nothingness_ is his previous Zen book; the first is _The Empty Mirror_. All are great books.) Yes, the "Rimpoche" in the book is definitely Trungpa. It says something that van de Wetering, who's not known for being mealy-mouthed about Buddhist teachers, does seem to enjoy "Rimpoche." Cheers, Franz Metcalf From slachs at att.net Tue Dec 6 15:49:18 2005 From: slachs at att.net (Stuart Lachs) Date: Tue Dec 6 15:55:06 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] crazy wisdom References: <40bac02eee747d6842788d712fd7d6f2@aol.com> <71712f0d9b44be6006af02f957ae7787@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <009601c5fab7$4b61ffc0$6601a8c0@nyc.rr.com> Franz wrote: > Just a quick correction. The van de Wetering book Thomas Fink is > thinking of is _Afterzen_, (St. Martin's, 1999). (_A Glimpse of > Nothingness_ is his previous Zen book; the first is _The Empty Mirror_. > All are great books.) Yes, the "Rimpoche" in the book is definitely > Trungpa. It says something that van de Wetering, who's not known for > being mealy-mouthed about Buddhist teachers, does seem to enjoy > "Rimpoche." van de Wettering is a terrific writer and story teller but I would be hestitant about relating what he says to what has actually happened. His second book on Zen, "A Glimpse of Nothingness" was written about his first visit to Moonspring Hermitage, a Zen community in Maine. His visit lasted about two weeks. Jan came about four or five days before a seven day retreat, did the retreat, and then stayed a few more days before returning to Holland. He then wrote the book about the community. The teacher in the book is Walter Nowick in real life, other people in the book are composite characters with a certain amount of poetic license. Jan later came to Maine with his wife and daughter and joined the community. He never really fit in with the community, the practice there, or with Walter. It ended something like, "you can't fire me, I quit." Jan was told to leave about the same time that Jan resigned. This was some time in the mid to late 1970's. He moved a few miles away and has a very beautiful house and grounds. Stuart > _______________________________________________ > buddha-l mailing list > buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com > http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From ralf.steckel at online.ms Wed Dec 7 08:03:31 2005 From: ralf.steckel at online.ms (ralf.steckel@online.ms) Date: Wed Dec 7 09:16:37 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] =?iso-8859-1?q?TIBET_=BF_Monasteries_open_their_treas?= =?iso-8859-1?q?uries_-_2006-Aug-19_-_2006-Nov-26_=28Europe=29?= Message-ID: <256360909@web.de> --- TIBET ? Monasteries open their treasuries The Kulturstiftung Ruhr is currently preparing a new exhibition focussing on Tibet and its unknown monastic treasures. From 19th August to 26th November 2006 the Villa H?gel will be showing a wide range of religious art works from the treasure chambers of Tibetan monasteries, some of which are up to 1,500 years old and most of which have never left Tibet. This will therefore be the first major exhibition of its kind in Europe. Contact Kulturstiftung Ruhr Villa H?gel 45133 Essen/ Germany Phone: +49 - (0)201 - 61 62 9 - 0 Fax: +49 - (0)201 - 61 62 9 - 11 E-mail: office@villahuegel.de URL: http://www.villahuegel.de/english/index.htm --- There are rumors that the same exhibition is presented in Berlin later - but these are only rumors. Best wishes, Ralf From stefan.detrez at gmail.com Wed Dec 14 06:35:34 2005 From: stefan.detrez at gmail.com (Stefan Detrez) Date: Wed Dec 14 06:37:30 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Pali texts in China? Message-ID: <4526ba440512140535t27c6d748u@mail.gmail.com> Hi, my professor of Asian history used to claim Pali texts were brought into China during the first centuries of our era. I had never read anything about that. The closest lineage I can imagine to be near to the Pali canon would be the Ch?-sh? school (later Kusha in Japan), but that would be more of a Sarvastivada type of thing, than Theravada. And then again, for now, I know of no Pali text of the Sarvastivadins. Any suggestions? Stefan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051214/9abf5c38/attachment.html From selwyn at ntlworld.com Wed Dec 14 07:01:07 2005 From: selwyn at ntlworld.com (L.S. Cousins) Date: Wed Dec 14 07:07:27 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Pali texts in China? In-Reply-To: <4526ba440512140535t27c6d748u@mail.gmail.com> References: <4526ba440512140535t27c6d748u@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Stefan, Your Prof. was correct, if 'first centuries' means 'around the fifth century A.D.'. For an English translation of a Pali text taken to China: Bapat, P.V. and Hirakawa, A., _Shan-chien-p'i-p'o-sha. A Chinese version by Sanghabhadra of Samantapaasaadikaa_, Bhandarkar Oriental Research Institute, Poona, 1970. Lance Cousins >my professor of Asian history used to claim Pali texts were brought >into China during the first centuries of our era. I had never read >anything about that. The closest lineage I can imagine to be near to >the Pali canon would be the Ch?-sh? school (later Kusha in Japan), >but that would be more of a Sarvastivada type of thing, than >Theravada. And then again, for now, I know of no Pali text of the >Sarvastivadins. From srhodes at boulder.net Thu Dec 15 17:50:15 2005 From: srhodes at boulder.net (Steven Rhodes) Date: Thu Dec 15 17:57:55 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] John Whitney Pettit Message-ID: <43A20F47.6000108@boulder.net> Does someone on this list have a current e-mail address for John Whitney Pettit? Thanks, Steven Rhodes From stefan.detrez at gmail.com Fri Dec 16 03:17:19 2005 From: stefan.detrez at gmail.com (Stefan Detrez) Date: Fri Dec 16 03:18:03 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Current state of study of early Buddhist schools? Message-ID: <4526ba440512160217l7f007d3ej@mail.gmail.com> Dear folks, I've been reading Frauwallner's Studies in Abhidharma Literature and the Origins of Buddhist Philosophical Systems. It covers the Sarvastivada Abhidharma, the Pali Abhidharma and the Sariputrabhidharma and then expands on their consequent development. The book is a translation from the German based on Frauwallner's articles published in the 70-ies. Whatever happened to the study of those early schools eversince? It seems there's no interest to study early buddhist schools telling from the meager quantity of books published on that subject. What happened? What about German, French and Italian publications on that subject? Thanks, Stefan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051216/0ea2b12f/attachment.html From wdkish81 at yahoo.com Fri Dec 16 09:23:52 2005 From: wdkish81 at yahoo.com (Bill Kish) Date: Fri Dec 16 09:28:10 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Contact information for Drepung Loseling Library Society In-Reply-To: <200512071900.jB7J0K3U002735@ns1.swcp.com> Message-ID: <20051216162352.25702.qmail@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Does anyone have a working email address for the Drepung Loseling Library Society and/or for Prof. Phuntsok Dhondup of Central Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies ? I am interested in ordering some texts that were critically edited by Prof. Dhondup and were published by the Drepung Loseling Library Society. Thanks in advance for any leads. --------- Bill Kish __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From H.W.A.Blezer at let.leidenuniv.nl Fri Dec 16 02:47:50 2005 From: H.W.A.Blezer at let.leidenuniv.nl (Blezer, H.W.A.) Date: Fri Dec 16 09:42:15 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Chair in the Study of Buddhism at the Kern Institute, Leiden University Message-ID: <41F1521454BEF247B9C037A02FC3DC1B019E65AE@WSDPD-XC01.wsdpd.wsdad.leidenuniv.nl> Dear colleagues, I am pleased to announce that the Leiden Chair in the Study of Buddhism, from which Prof. T.E. Vetter retired five years ago, has just been reopened. The University is now inviting applications, and I request you to pass on this message to colleagues whom you think may be interested to apply. The practicalities are given at the bottom of this message (along with the English version of the profile), and I may add that I myself am also available to provide further information about the position. Please note that applications need to be received by the 6th of January 2006. The Dutch version of this information is available at , vacancy 5-246 of Dec. 5th. Arlo Griffiths Professor of Sanskrit Instituut Kern, Universiteit Leiden Postbus 9515 2300 RA Leiden, the Netherlands phone: +31-(0)71-5272622 fax: +31-(0)71-5272956 email: ---- ENGLISH ADVERTISEMENT/PRACTICALITIES ---- The Faculty of Arts is seeking to fill the position of professor (m/f) in the Study of Buddhism (0.6-0.8 fte, initially for a period of five years) vacancy number: 5-246 The position comprises the following tasks: - teaching of courses on the textual sources of Buddhism, on living Buddhism in Sri Lanka and / or the Himalayan region and / or Southeast Asia, and on the relationship between them; - research in this field; - instigating, stimulating and supervising doctoral research in this field; - attracting external financial resources for research and teaching in this field; - performing administrative tasks within the Department of Languages and Cultures of South and Central-Asian Studies. The successful candidate holds a doctorate, and possesses: - excellent research abilities in the field, as appears from a wide range of publications which have appeared - nationally and internationally - at leading publishers or in important journals; - excellent teaching qualities and broad experience in offering academic teaching in various forms. - experience in supervision and training of young researchers; - demonstrable expertise with regard to the primary textual sources of Buddhism and its later living forms in Sri Lanka and / or the Himalayan region and / or Southeast Asia; - sound knowledge of at least one Indic/Himalayan canonical language, and of at least one modern South Asian, Southeast Asian or Himalayan language relevant to the study of living Buddhism; - demonstrable ability to attract external funding for teaching and research; - demonstrable administrative and management abilities and the willingness to participate actively in administrative tasks in the department, the relevant research-frameworks and the Faculty of Arts. Expertise in East Asian Buddhism and in Buddhism of other than the mentioned regions, as well as sound knowledge of one or more of the languages relevant there, will be to the candidate's advantage. If the appointed professor is not conversant with the Dutch language, he / she will be expected to acquire a good command of this language within two years. A trial lecture will form part of the selection process. An assessment of management capabilities will take place as well. Those who consider themselves qualified for this post, as also those who want to draw attention to potential candidates, are to address themselves in writing to the dean of the Faculty of Arts, prof. dr. G.E. Booij, Faculteitsbureau Letteren, Postbus 9515, 2300 RA Leiden, the Netherlands. The closure date is four weeks from the appearance of this advertisement. Applications are to be accompanied by a curriculum vitae, a list of publications and a plan for future research. A profile can be obtained via the office of the Faculty, reachable at +31-71-527 23 18 / e-mail: m.l.p.remmerswaal@let.leidenuniv.nl, and also on our website: www.letteren.leidenuniv.nl under the head Organisatie and then vacatures. De dean of the faculty is available to given further information about this chair; he can be reached at the mentioned telephone number. Leiden University wishes to hire more women. For this reason, they in particular are invited to submit applications. ---- PROFILE ---- Faculty of Arts, Leiden University Full Professorship in the Study of Buddhism The chair is dedicated to teaching and research in the field of Buddhism. In this field, the chair's emphasis is on (i) the primary textual sources of Buddhism, (ii) living Buddhism in Sri Lanka and / or in the Himalayas and / or Southeast Asia, and (iii) the relation between the prior two. The appointment is at 0.6-0.8 fte, and will initially be made for a period of five years. If the professorship is carried out successfully the appointment can be made permanent after this period. This post is part of the department of Languages & Cultures of South & Central Asia, but the chair is expected to offer courses in which students interested in Buddhism from other programs can also participate fruitfully; this holds in particular for students from the program in World Religions. The chair's research activities will be embedded organizationally in the Research School for Asian, African and Amerindian Studies, the CNWS. The successful candidate holds a doctorate. He / she possesses excellent research abilities in the field, as appears from a wide range of publications which have appeared at leading publishers or in important journals. He /she possesses demonstrable expertise with regard to the primary textual sources of Buddhism and its later living forms in one or more of the mentioned regions. In particular, the candidate must have sound knowledge of at least one Indic/Himalayan canonical language, and at least one modern South Asian, Southeast Asian or Himalayan language relevant to the study of living Buddhism. Expertise in East Asian Buddhism and in Buddhism of other than the mentioned regions, as well as sound knowledge of one or more of the languages relevant there, will be to the candidate's advantage. He / she also has excellent teaching qualities and has broad experience in university education at the highest level and in various teaching forms. Moreover, he / she is able to set up and give direction to (innovative) teaching projects. He / she is also able to stimulate interest for the field among young academics. The chair will bear (shared) responsibility for, and will be actively engaged in teaching in the BA and MA programs of the department of Languages & Cultures of South & Central Asia, as also in the research oriented MPhil in Asian Studies. Depending on his / her specialization, the chair may also participate in one of the other MPhil programs falling under the Faculty of Arts. The chair and connected staff also participate in the BA and MA programs in World Religions under the Faculty of Theology. His / her contribution to teaching will be arranged in consultation with the colleagues administratively responsible for the concerned programs. The successful candidate is engaged in research in the field of the chair. He / she is able further to develop existing research projects, and to instigate new research. To this aim, he / she is able to attract external funding. The chair will play an active role in the Research School CNWS. The chair will also contribute to attracting, supervising and training young researchers. In giving concrete shape to his / her engagement in the Study of Buddhism, the chair will collaborate closely with his / her colleagues working in this field in the Faculty of Arts and in other faculties of Leiden University. He / she is prepared to promote the cause of his field nationally and internationally, within and beyond the academic community. During the first five years of his / her appointment, the chair will be expected to focus principally on engaging in, instigating, and supervising research, contributing to and developing the teaching curriculum, training of young researchers, and attracting external funding. Since, therefore, the chair will initially have to focus on developing the field, his / her other administrative duties will remain limited during this period. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051216/544c600f/attachment-0001.html From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Dec 16 10:07:40 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Fri Dec 16 10:08:07 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Current state of study of early Buddhist schools? In-Reply-To: <4526ba440512160217l7f007d3ej@mail.gmail.com> References: <4526ba440512160217l7f007d3ej@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1134752860.4493.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 11:17 +0100, Stefan Detrez wrote: > Whatever happened to the study of those early schools eversince? It > seems there's no interest to study early buddhist schools telling from > the meager quantity of books published on that subject. That's a good question. My own feeling is that progress in that area will be slow, because it is impossible to do any research in that field without having a very good command of Indic languages, Buddhist Chinese (which is a specialty in itself) and Tibetan. Fewer and fewer people have the necessary linguistic skills AND the interest of working in what seems to many like a very dry area of research. We are living in deeply anti-scholastic times, thanks in part to the post-modern allergy to "grand narratives" and to such quaint ideas as "truth". Don't expect anything of value to come from the Americas. Our brief flirtation with civilization finished sometime around 1835. Our educational systems have been carefully tuned to produce nothing but ignorant savages stupid enough to vote for neo-conservative Republicans. Most American academics can't even write grammatical English, let alone read Chinese and Sanskrit, or even and French, German and Russian (without which most past research in Buddhism is inaccessible). We have fallen on evil times, mon ami. Perhaps when the kali yuga is over, there will be some good research in Buddhism again. Until then, just keep mindful of your breathing. -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From f-lehman at uiuc.edu Fri Dec 16 11:57:49 2005 From: f-lehman at uiuc.edu (F.K. Lehman (F.K.L. Chit Hlaing)) Date: Fri Dec 16 11:58:09 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Current state of study of early Buddhist schools? In-Reply-To: <1134752860.4493.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4526ba440512160217l7f007d3ej@mail.gmail.com> <1134752860.4493.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Responding to Richard Hayes, here, regarding the study of Buddhist Schools: there's one addition, and, in this case, meaningful problem, namely, that we've managed, finally to realise that there is an intractable difficulty in trying to associate particular ideas with particular schools. The thing is that we now understand (or I hope we do) that the schools and their 'members' interacted all the time and ideas generally were part of a sort intellectual of common soup that all the schools tended to drink from. -- F. K. L. Chit Hlaing Professor Department of Anthropology University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign From mike at lamrim.org.uk Fri Dec 16 12:25:30 2005 From: mike at lamrim.org.uk (Mike Austin) Date: Fri Dec 16 12:28:10 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Contact information for Drepung Loseling Library Society In-Reply-To: <20051216162352.25702.qmail@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <200512071900.jB7J0K3U002735@ns1.swcp.com> <20051216162352.25702.qmail@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In message <20051216162352.25702.qmail@web30507.mail.mud.yahoo.com>, Bill Kish writes > >Does anyone have a working email address for the Drepung Loseling >Library Society and/or for Prof. Phuntsok Dhondup of Central >Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies ? I am interested in ordering >some texts that were critically edited by Prof. Dhondup and were >published by the Drepung Loseling Library Society. Thanks in >advance for any leads. > The last address I have is dllsociety@yahoo.co.in. That was from Dreloma magazine in July. -- Metta Mike Austin From rhayes at unm.edu Fri Dec 16 12:57:57 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Fri Dec 16 12:58:10 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Re: Current state of study of early Buddhist schools? In-Reply-To: References: <4526ba440512160217l7f007d3ej@mail.gmail.com> <1134752860.4493.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1134763078.5580.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 12:57 -0600, F.K. Lehman (F.K.L. Chit Hlaing) wrote: > Responding to Richard Hayes, here, regarding the study of Buddhist > Schools: there's one addition, and, in this case, meaningful problem, > namely, that we've managed, finally to realise that there is an > intractable difficulty in trying to associate particular ideas with > particular schools. Right. If one is trying to write a social or institutional history of Buddhism, the textual evidence is inadequate. Some of us, however, are interested in doctrinal history and take an interest in ideas without much regard to those who held them. (Ideas are so clean. Human beings are so unhygienic!) > The thing is that we now understand (or I hope we do) that the schools > and their 'members' interacted all the time and ideas generally were > part of a sort intellectual of common soup that all the schools tended > to drink from. Right. About the same thing is the case at a modern university. Philosophers, for example, talk to linguists, historians, mathematicians and even anthropologists. That notwithstanding, there are certain disciplinary boundaries in place, however permeable they may be. I think the same was true in most Buddhist settings. Still, it may be worth reminding everyone that it has been at least a century since anyone thought that Buddhist schools of abhidharma were anything like the denominations within Christianity. I'd say more, but I'm saving my energy for my investigations into on some of the differences between Presbyterian, Baptist and Unitarian abhidharma early 19th century ante-bellicose USAmerica (just before the United States became disunited for a spell). -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From Baopiguy at comcast.net Fri Dec 16 22:00:03 2005 From: Baopiguy at comcast.net (Baopiguy@comcast.net) Date: Fri Dec 16 22:08:18 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Current state of study of early Buddhist schools? In-Reply-To: <1134752860.4493.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4526ba440512160217l7f007d3ej@mail.gmail.com> <1134752860.4493.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6.2.3.4.0.20051216205217.08a91970@Mail.comcast.net> Richard is SO VERY CORRECT in his response. I was once asked to teach a course on pre-and early Buddhist schools at the University if Oriental Studies here in Los Angeles. Turned out I had two students, an M.D. and a Buddhist master. I spent about three half-to-full days each week preparing a three-hour class which was 90% lecture since they had little knowledge in the area and few questions. It was the most thankless job I ever had.........I would never go through such hell again. (By the way, I see you've given up the cold for the heat, Richard. Hope I can visit you one day...or is this a guest professor situation?) An Tzu >On Fri, 2005-12-16 at 11:17 +0100, Stefan Detrez wrote: > > > Whatever happened to the study of those early schools eversince? It > > seems there's no interest to study early buddhist schools telling from > > the meager quantity of books published on that subject. > >That's a good question. My own feeling is that progress in that area >will be slow, because it is impossible to do any research in that field >without having a very good command of Indic languages, Buddhist Chinese >(which is a specialty in itself) and Tibetan. Fewer and fewer people >have the necessary linguistic skills AND the interest of working in what >seems to many like a very dry area of research. We are living in deeply >anti-scholastic times, thanks in part to the post-modern allergy to >"grand narratives" and to such quaint ideas as "truth". > >Don't expect anything of value to come from the Americas. Our brief >flirtation with civilization finished sometime around 1835. Our >educational systems have been carefully tuned to produce nothing but >ignorant savages stupid enough to vote for neo-conservative Republicans. >Most American academics can't even write grammatical English, let alone >read Chinese and Sanskrit, or even and French, German and Russian >(without which most past research in Buddhism is inaccessible). > >We have fallen on evil times, mon ami. Perhaps when the kali yuga is >over, there will be some good research in Buddhism again. Until then, >just keep mindful of your breathing. > >-- >Richard Hayes >Department of Philosophy >University of New Mexico > >_______________________________________________ >buddha-l mailing list >buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com >http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l From jehms at xs4all.nl Sat Dec 17 08:06:10 2005 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Sat Dec 17 08:08:26 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] new translation Naagaarjuna Message-ID: <43A42962.9070206@xs4all.nl> Dear friends the English version of my translation of the Mulamadyamakakaarikaah has been recently made available on www.eloquenceweb.com, ISBN: 9077787054. The Dutch version appeared the 10th of July at www.olivepress.nl. New is that I try to see Naagaarjuna as a philosopher. I apologize for my mistakes. Happy reading and happy holidays. -- Erik www.xs4all.nl/~jehms From rhayes at unm.edu Sat Dec 17 10:35:55 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Sat Dec 17 10:38:28 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] new translation Naagaarjuna In-Reply-To: <43A42962.9070206@xs4all.nl> References: <43A42962.9070206@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1134840955.5295.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-12-17 at 16:06 +0100, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > the English version of my translation of the Mulamadyamakakaarikaah has > been recently made available on www.eloquenceweb.com, ISBN: 9077787054. Congratulations. This new English translation is from the Dutch, you say. Was the Dutch translation made from Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, Mongolian or all of the above? > New is that I try to see Naagaarjuna as a philosopher. In what way is this new? The first scholar to bring Nagarjuna in a major way to the attention of the West was Shcherbatskoi, who presented the thought in a neo-Kantian framework. Murti followed suit with comparisons of Nagarjuna to Hegel and Kant. Fred Streng compared Nagarjuna with Wittgenstein. Magliola compares Nagarjuna with Derrida. Mervyn Sprung produced a superb translation of parts of the MMK and Candrakirti's commentary in which his explicit agenda was to produce a philosophical rendering. Kalupahana translates Nagarjuna as a Logical Positivist. I dealt with him as being akin to a Pyrrhonian Skeptic. Mark Siderits has an extensive philosophical treatment of great subtlety and complexity. Indeed, of all the many translations of Nagarjuna, perhaps the only one NOT to see Nagarjuna as a philosopher is Stephen Batchelor, who sees Nagarjuna more as a poet. Batchelor's prose summary of Nagarjuna is the very best I have ever read; his translation is the very worst I can imagine. > I apologize for my mistakes. Once one is forgiven the big mistake of trying to translate Nagarjuna at all, all minor infelicities can be forgiven. > Happy reading and happy holidays. If you said a thing like that in America, you'd probably be arrested! First of all, nobody here reads well enough to derive happiness from the activity. And second, the theocracy that has taken control of this country has mounted a campaign alleging that people who say "Happy holidays" are virtually declaring holy war on Christians and therefore giving comfort to the terrorists. Be glad you live in the Low Country, Erik! -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From jehms at xs4all.nl Sat Dec 17 13:29:03 2005 From: jehms at xs4all.nl (Erik Hoogcarspel) Date: Sat Dec 17 13:38:33 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] new translation Naagaarjuna In-Reply-To: <1134840955.5295.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <43A42962.9070206@xs4all.nl> <1134840955.5295.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <43A4750F.8060405@xs4all.nl> Richard P. Hayes schreef: >On Sat, 2005-12-17 at 16:06 +0100, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > > > >> the English version of my translation of the Mulamadyamakakaarikaah has >>been recently made available on www.eloquenceweb.com, ISBN: 9077787054. >> >> > >Congratulations. This new English translation is from the Dutch, you >say. Was the Dutch translation made from Sanskrit, Tibetan, Chinese, >Mongolian or all of the above? > > It's a translation from Sanskrit with a sideglance at the Chinese version of Kumarajiva > > >>New is that I try to see Naagaarjuna as a philosopher. >> >> > >In what way is this new? The first scholar to bring Nagarjuna in a major >way to the attention of the West was Shcherbatskoi, who presented the >thought in a neo-Kantian framework. Murti followed suit with comparisons >of Nagarjuna to Hegel and Kant. Fred Streng compared Nagarjuna with >Wittgenstein. Magliola compares Nagarjuna with Derrida. Mervyn Sprung >produced a superb translation of parts of the MMK and Candrakirti's >commentary in which his explicit agenda was to produce a philosophical >rendering. Kalupahana translates Nagarjuna as a Logical Positivist. I >dealt with him as being akin to a Pyrrhonian Skeptic. Mark Siderits has >an extensive philosophical treatment of great subtlety and complexity. >Indeed, of all the many translations of Nagarjuna, perhaps the only one >NOT to see Nagarjuna as a philosopher is Stephen Batchelor, who sees >Nagarjuna more as a poet. Batchelor's prose summary of Nagarjuna is the >very best I have ever read; his translation is the very worst I can >imagine. > > All true, but I've tried not to reduce N to any of the above. N had a beef with the sarvaastivaadins of his time in the first place, but I think the line of many his arguments can be compared with similar arguments used by Western philosophers. I show that some of his arguments are also found with Sextus Empiricus, but there's always a difference of context. I think also that the book itself can be divided into 2 parts, a former and a later one and that two chapters are inserted later on. Of what I hear my translation and commentary is a bit more clear and down to the earth than others, sometimes I've choosen clearity over literacy. Erik www.xs4all.nl/~jehms From rhayes at unm.edu Sat Dec 17 15:45:11 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Sat Dec 17 15:48:32 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] new translation Naagaarjuna In-Reply-To: <43A4750F.8060405@xs4all.nl> References: <43A42962.9070206@xs4all.nl> <1134840955.5295.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <43A4750F.8060405@xs4all.nl> Message-ID: <1134859511.7360.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2005-12-17 at 21:29 +0100, Erik Hoogcarspel wrote: > Of what I hear my translation and commentary is a bit > more clear and down to the earth than others, sometimes I've choosen > clearity over literacy. I look forward to reading your translation. If one has to choose, clarity should win out over literalism any day. Of course, when one is translating a badly written text (such as one by Dharmakiirti), clarity may not capture the original text very well. But Nagarjuna is one of the clearest writers in Indian Buddhism, so one needn't worry about misrepresenting him by making him more clear than he was in the original. -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From stefan.detrez at gmail.com Mon Dec 19 04:21:26 2005 From: stefan.detrez at gmail.com (Stefan Detrez) Date: Mon Dec 19 04:29:02 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Christovao Ferreira, the first Western Zen Buddhist Message-ID: <4526ba440512190321h3a88863an@mail.gmail.com> I just learned the Jesuit Christovao Ferreira converted to Zen Buddhism (albeit with deadly torture in the proximity) and started writing anti-Christian pamflets. http://opencopy.org/content/view/71/36/ (based on Batchelor's *'The Awakening of the West: The Encounter of Buddhism and Western Culture'*) Have any of these been published in an Indo-European language? Thanks, -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051219/db64d3ed/attachment.html From stephen.hopkins at ukonline.co.uk Mon Dec 19 14:38:54 2005 From: stephen.hopkins at ukonline.co.uk (Stephen Hopkins) Date: Mon Dec 19 14:39:08 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Taisodaisokyo Sutra In-Reply-To: <1134752860.4493.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Denizens - Elusive, to me at least, and quite possibly mis-spelt (by me, again) - nonetheless, can anyone help me locate this sutta? Thanks in advance. Steve Hopkins From s.hodge at padmacholing.freeserve.co.uk Mon Dec 19 15:55:12 2005 From: s.hodge at padmacholing.freeserve.co.uk (Stephen Hodge) Date: Mon Dec 19 15:59:10 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Taisodaisokyo Sutra References: Message-ID: <002a01c604ef$5ad410a0$c87e4e51@zen> Stephen Hopkins > Elusive, to me at least, and quite possibly mis-spelt (by me, again) - > nonetheless, can anyone help me locate this sutta [Taisodaisokyo Sutra] ? The (approx) correct spelling should be Taisho Daizokyo. Alas, this is not the name of a "sutta", but an entire edition of the Buddhist canon in Chinese translation which was first compiled in the Taisho era (1920s) in Japan. It is regarded as the standard edition for Chinese Buddhist texts, though it does have its short-comings. When I say that it is the Buddhist canon, I mean by this that it comprises (nearly) all Indic Buddhist texts translated into Chinese from the Han period to the Song period, contained in 32 thick volumes. There are further volumes containing works composed in China, Korea and Japan. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge From buddhisti at aol.com Mon Dec 19 19:12:06 2005 From: buddhisti at aol.com (buddhisti@aol.com) Date: Mon Dec 19 20:59:32 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Taisodaisokyo Sutra In-Reply-To: <002a01c604ef$5ad410a0$c87e4e51@zen> References: <002a01c604ef$5ad410a0$c87e4e51@zen> Message-ID: <8C7D321E8AF591B-570-F035@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> This Taisho can be read on-line (and downloaded) from: http://www.cbeta.org/index_list.htm If you click on the 2nd and 3rd tabs, you'll be able to find up to vol 55, and the vol 85 as well. That will save you more than five grands, and can fit in 2 CDs. I've posted this link last year, but somehow it was not published. Minh Quang -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Hodge To: Buddhist discussion forum Sent: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 22:55:12 -0000 Subject: Re: [Buddha-l] Taisodaisokyo Sutra Stephen Hopkins > Elusive, to me at least, and quite possibly mis-spelt (by me, again) - > nonetheless, can anyone help me locate this sutta [Taisodaisokyo Sutra] ? The (approx) correct spelling should be Taisho Daizokyo. Alas, this is not the name of a "sutta", but an entire edition of the Buddhist canon in Chinese translation which was first compiled in the Taisho era (1920s) in Japan. It is regarded as the standard edition for Chinese Buddhist texts, though it does have its short-comings. When I say that it is the Buddhist canon, I mean by this that it comprises (nearly) all Indic Buddhist texts translated into Chinese from the Han period to the Song period, contained in 32 thick volumes. There are further volumes containing works composed in China, Korea and Japan. Best wishes, Stephen Hodge _______________________________________________ buddha-l mailing list buddha-l@mailman.swcp.com http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/listinfo/buddha-l -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051219/799a3c78/attachment.html From s-sarbacker at northwestern.edu Wed Dec 28 11:00:44 2005 From: s-sarbacker at northwestern.edu (Stuart Ray Sarbacker) Date: Wed Dec 28 11:01:56 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] WORD 2004 custom dictionary Message-ID: Colleagues, I apologize for the cross-posting if you have seen this query already. I am wondering if anyone has discerned how to add words in Unicode font (especially Times Extended Roman) to a/the custom dictionary on Microsoft Word 2004 (OS X). I know this has been an issue for others given conversations I have had recently. WORD 2004 does not seem to allow adding such words, stating that either the dictionary is full (it is not) or that the word contains "non-roman" characters. If anyone has figured out how to get around this, I would be very grateful to hear, as I'm sure others would. Best Wishes, -- Dr. Stuart Sarbacker Lecturer in Religion Director of Undergraduate Studies Department of Religion Northwestern University http://www.religion.northwestern.edu/faculty/sarbacker.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.swcp.com/mailman/private/buddha-l/attachments/20051228/8d313228/attachment.html From mike at lamrim.org.uk Wed Dec 28 12:04:25 2005 From: mike at lamrim.org.uk (Mike Austin) Date: Wed Dec 28 12:11:56 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Subahu sutra Message-ID: In a note to a translation of "A Guide to the Bodhisattva's Way Of Life" the Subahupariprccha Sutra is quoted: "If one perseveres for the sake of bringing happiness and benefit to an infinite number of beings, then the infinite roots of virtue from this infinite aim that bears in mind the happiness and benefit of all sentient beings shall increase, expand and reach towards fulfilment every moment, day and night, regardless of whether one is unconscientious or even asleep." Is the word 'unconscientious' correct? Or should it be 'unconscious', to be more like 'asleep'? -- Metta Mike Austin From rhayes at unm.edu Wed Dec 28 16:12:30 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Wed Dec 28 16:32:00 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Unicode keyboard driver for Mac? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1135811551.4384.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 12:00 -0600, Stuart Ray Sarbacker wrote: > I am wondering if anyone has discerned how to add words in Unicode > font (especially Times Extended Roman) to a/the custom dictionary on > Microsoft Word 2004 (OS X). While we're on this general topic, I wonder whether anyone has information on how to type Unicode encoding into a document using Word for Macintosh. Is there, for example, a readily available keyboard driver? A colleague has asked me for help doing this, but I know nothing about Macintoshes except that one wears them in the rain. Any advice that anyone can give me will be deeply appreciated by my colleague (and superficially appreciated by me), and will generate merit that will increase even when the informant is momentarily distracted, asleep or dead. -- Richard Hayes "Loyalty to petrified opinion never yet broke a chain or freed a human soul." -- Mark Twain -- Richard Hayes Department of Philosophy University of New Mexico From rhayes at unm.edu Wed Dec 28 15:11:48 2005 From: rhayes at unm.edu (Richard P. Hayes) Date: Wed Dec 28 16:32:03 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Subahu sutra In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1135807908.4384.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-12-28 at 19:04 +0000, Mike Austin wrote: > "If one perseveres for the sake of bringing happiness and benefit to an > infinite number of beings, then the infinite roots of virtue from this > infinite aim that bears in mind the happiness and benefit of all > sentient beings shall increase, expand and reach towards fulfilment > every moment, day and night, regardless of whether one is > unconscientious or even asleep." > > Is the word 'unconscientious' correct? Or should it be 'unconscious', to > be more like 'asleep'? I am not sure what the Sanskrit is of this particular passage, but I do know of several other texts that express a similar idea. In those texts, the basic idea is that once a good habit has been established, then its merit increases even when one is distracted (that is, not paying attention to it specifically and therefore perhaps unconscientious) or even unconscious or asleep. -- "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." -- Henry David Thoreau From s-sarbacker at northwestern.edu Thu Dec 29 12:48:36 2005 From: s-sarbacker at northwestern.edu (Stuart Ray Sarbacker) Date: Thu Dec 29 12:52:17 2005 Subject: [Buddha-l] Unicode (WORD 2004, etc.) issues In-Reply-To: <200512291900.jBTJ0Vnm010572@ns1.swcp.com> References: <200512291900.jBTJ0Vnm010572@ns1.swcp.com> Message-ID: Dear All, Elizabeth Callahan suggested that opening the custom dictionary in Wordpad and saving it as a unicode text document solved the problems with adding Unicode in windows versions of WORD. I tried the same solution on the Mac by opening the custom dictionary with TextEdit, and saving it as a Unicode UTF-16 document (UTF-8 did not work) and it appears to have largely solved the problem (I can add romanized Sanskrit terms with diacritics to the custom dictionary saving inestimable time). Many thanks to Elizabeth for this. Now I feel much better about those two wasted hours on hold with Microsoft listening to what was possibly the worst "muzak" I have ever been forced to listen to! As for general Unicode support on Mac, as far as I am aware, most people are using either the U of Washington Gandhari Unicode font or the Times Extended Roman font, and the Easyunicode Keyboard (which makes typing with Unicode fonts a breeze, esp. in WORD). Links to these fonts and keyboards can be found at: http://www.thdl.org/tools/diafonts.html http://depts.washington.edu/ebmp/software.php Best Wishes, Stuart -- Dr. Stuart Sarbacker Lecturer in Religion Director of Undergraduate Studies Department of Religion Northwestern University http://www.religion.northwestern.edu/faculty/sarbacker.html