[Buddha-l] Re: Will new the pope verify Buddhist doctrine?

[curt]

I originally saw it on a postcard in a little shop in Colonge.
Dom Helder Camara (not "Camera" - that was a mistake
in my original email) was a Catholic Arch-Bishop in Brazil,
and he is considered a pioneer of "liberation theology".
He was often accused of being a communist dupe - and
I believe this quote was his "stock answer" any time he
had to face such accusations. I haven't been able to locate
a specific citation. Most of his writings were in Portuguese,
I think - and the quote was originally in Portuguese, or at
least that's what I assume since it shows up in slightly
different English wordings in different places.

I did find an obituary of him that mentions the quote:
http://www.wfn.org/1999/09/msg00006.html (scroll down)
But that source doesn't give a specific citation. Also I found a
couple of on-line sermons that include the quote - but again
without specific citation:
http://world.std.com/~eshu/osc/sermons/bb04aug02.htm
http://www.buxmontuu.org/care.htm

Lastly there is a website devoted just to Dom Helder Camara:
http://www.domhelder.com.br/ingles/pg.htm
Maybe if you email the people at the website they might have
an idea of where to find a proper citation. To my knowledge
this quote has never been attributed to anyone other than
Camara.

- Curt

Gad Horowitz wrote:

> curt, can you provide a reference for the quote from Camera? I will 
> use it in a book I am publishing on Levinas.
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* jkirk <mailto:jkirk at spro.net>
>     *To:* Buddhist discussion forum <mailto:buddha-l at mailman.swcp.com>
>     *Sent:* Friday, April 22, 2005 11:35 AM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Buddha-l] Re: Will new the pope verify Buddhist
>     doctrine?
>
>      
>     My comments interlinear. JK
>     ======================
>     Curt wrote:
>     > If we just wanted to be part of a movement dedicated to helping
>     > the poor, etc, then we should just all become Socialists. Don't
>     > get me wrong - I happen to be a Socialist myself. Religious
>     > charity work very often involves attempts to indoctrinate poor
>     > people and other "disempowered" groups to see their situation
>     > as either "God's will" or the result of "past karma" or whatever.
>     > Religious charity work also serves as a PR bonanza for Religious
>     > groups and is usually tightly coupled with their fundrasing
>     > apparatus. Also, "charity work" is almost inevitably thinly
>     disguised
>     > missionary work. .................
>      
>     JK: 
>        This is precisely what I alluded to without going into it at
>     length.
>     This is precisely what US critics of Buddhism like about their own
>     religion. That missionizing, hypocrisy, and phonyness etc is going
>     on is just fine by them as long as it has the Christian stamp on it.
>     _I intended to allude to a very obvious cultural institutional aspect_
>     as the basis for the cited put-downs of Buddhists and Buddhism.
>
>     > Dom Helder Camera put it better than I can "When I give food
>     > to the poor they call me a saint. But when I ask why the poor
>     > have no food, they call me a Communist." Dealing with the causes
>     > of social problems (ie, asking why the poor have no food) is
>     > ultimately more important than putting bandaids on the sucking
>     > chest wounds of poverty and oppression.
>      
>     JK:   
>     I did not write about dealing with the causes of social problems.
>     I too am a socialist, _but causes were not my point_. You changed
>     the subject here.
>      
>     Let me add, following up on cultural differences, that the
>     charities organized by many immigrant Asian communities are
>     continuations of what they do or did in their countries of origin.
>     Such organizations are viewed as self-help or support
>     organizations, and the founders may also figure they earn merit
>     thereby. Such Asian immigrant cultures as Vietnamese, Thai, and
>     Korean for ex., still _maintain a spirit of community or
>     collective identity that is no longer part of US mainline
>     individualistic culture. _
>      
>     Referring to points made by Peter Junger today, charitable
>     donating per se is not what I was on about either. I was noting
>     _the lack of so-called charitable institutions, not individuals._
>     Judging by the costly edifices paid for by some Buddhist sanghas,
>     it does seem that not all of us are all that poor.
>      
>     But I overlooked one important contribution of Buddhists to social
>     needs in some parts of the USA: their setting up of or support
>     for hospices for the care of the terminally ill.
>     JK
>
>      
>
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