[Buddha-l] Moment of individuation

[Stanley J. Ziobro II]

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005, Richard P. Hayes wrote:

> On Thu, 2005-04-14 at 22:45 -0400, Stanley J. Ziobro II wrote:
>
> > I don't know that we are dealing only with opinions.  People (sometimes
> > large crowds of them) have experienced visitations by those who had passed
> > from this realm of existence.
>
> The problem, of course, is that there are no uninterpreted facts of the
> matter. There are people who interpret their experiences within the
> framework of a belief that visitations from those who have passed beyond
> this realm are possible. Those who operate within a different framework,
> however, would interpret those experiences differently.

Richard, in your judgment, could differences in interpretation be
understood as something other than problems?

> And so I think we are still dealing here almost entirely with opinion.

I would differ with you.  I think we are dealing with judgments upon
insight(s) into given data.  One may speak of frames of reference and be
engaged in understanding the matter at hand (responding to the question
"What is it?"), but sooner or later, if one is to say whether or not that
something is what it seems to be, then, one must make a judgment.  Without
that judgment one does not know; one simply surmises.  Opinions donot meet
this point.

> > But granted there are things that function solely on
> > mechanical principles, these are artificially constructed by beings (human
> > beings) who do not operate only on mechanical principles.  How is this
> > possible?
>
> You are committing the fallacy of begging the question. The very thing
> that is controverted is whether or not human beings operate only on
> mechanical principles. And on this, opinion is divided and has been for
> a very long time, and I see no prospects for anyone providing conclusive
> evidence for one side or the other of the debate. In other words, both
> sides are operating entirely on faith. But that's fine, so long as we
> allow each man or woman the freedom to follow the kind of faith that his
> or her conditioning makes possible.

I don't know that I'd agree that we operate entirely on faith, but I can
agree that we take many things on some form of faith initially.

Stan Ziobro